diff --git a/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.lfm b/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.lfm
index 20da266ca4..5d3dacb367 100644
--- a/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.lfm
+++ b/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.lfm
@@ -6,7 +6,7 @@ object MainForm: TMainForm
   Caption = 'MainForm'
   Menu = MainMenu1
   OnCreate = FormCreate
-  LCLVersion = '0.9.27'
+  LCLVersion = '0.9.29'
   object MainMenu1: TMainMenu
     left = 10
     top = 10
diff --git a/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.lrs b/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.lrs
index 2d9fd54613..360002555c 100644
--- a/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.lrs
+++ b/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.lrs
@@ -3,7 +3,7 @@
 LazarusResources.Add('TMainForm','FORMDATA',[
   'TPF0'#9'TMainForm'#8'MainForm'#4'Left'#2#9#6'Height'#2'+'#3'Top'#2'g'#5'Widt'
   +'h'#3#144#1#7'Caption'#6#8'MainForm'#4'Menu'#7#9'MainMenu1'#8'OnCreate'#7#10
-  +'FormCreate'#10'LCLVersion'#6#6'0.9.27'#0#9'TMainMenu'#9'MainMenu1'#4'left'#2
+  +'FormCreate'#10'LCLVersion'#6#6'0.9.29'#0#9'TMainMenu'#9'MainMenu1'#4'left'#2
   +#10#3'top'#2#10#0#9'TMenuItem'#7'mnuFile'#7'Caption'#6#5'&File'#0#9'TMenuIte'
   +'m'#6'mnOpen'#7'Caption'#6#8'&Open...'#7'OnClick'#7#11'mnOpenClick'#0#0#9'TM'
   +'enuItem'#9'MenuItem1'#7'Caption'#6#1'-'#0#0#9'TMenuItem'#7'mnClose'#7'Capti'
diff --git a/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.pas b/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.pas
index 5088b484f7..bdd22360c4 100644
--- a/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.pas
+++ b/examples/dockmanager/easyedit/editmain.pas
@@ -59,10 +59,14 @@ var
 
 implementation
 
+uses
+  uMakeSite;
+
 { TMainForm }
 
 procedure TMainForm.FormCreate(Sender: TObject);
 begin
+  TDockMaster.Create(self);
 {
   MyEdit := TEasyPages.Create(self);
   MyEdit.Align := alClient;
diff --git a/examples/dockmanager/ide_demo/fminiide.pas b/examples/dockmanager/ide_demo/fminiide.pas
index 81f530ec6f..574511d79a 100644
--- a/examples/dockmanager/ide_demo/fminiide.pas
+++ b/examples/dockmanager/ide_demo/fminiide.pas
@@ -206,9 +206,14 @@ procedure TMainBar.buSaveClick(Sender: TObject);
 var
   strm: TFileStream;
 begin
+(* Save layout.
+  This should inlude ALL forms, not only the dockable ones!
+*)
   if dlgLayout.Execute then begin
     strm := TFileStream.Create(dlgLayout.FileName, fmCreate);
     try
+    //save non-dockable forms
+    //save dockable forms and sites
       DockMaster.SaveToStream(strm);
     finally
       strm.Free;
@@ -225,6 +230,8 @@ begin
 (* Create a client form, and dock it into a floating dock host site.
   We must force docking here, later the client will dock itself into
   a float host site, when it becomes floating.
+
+  Should use: DockMaster.CreateDockable(TViewWindow) - RegisterClass!
 *)
 //lookup existing (assume single instance forms)
   n := StringReplace(cap, ' ', '', [rfReplaceAll]);
@@ -233,12 +240,16 @@ begin
   //create the form
     Client := TViewWindow.Create(Self);
     Client.Label1.Caption := cap;
-    Client.Visible := True;
   //name it
     Client.Caption := cap;
     TryRename(Client, n);
     DockMaster.MakeDockable(Client, fWrap, True);
+    Client.Visible := True;
     Result := Client;
+  end else begin
+  //activate the existing form
+    Result.Show; //might be invisible
+    Result.SetFocus;
   end;
 end;
 
diff --git a/examples/dockmanager/package/easydocksite.pas b/examples/dockmanager/package/easydocksite.pas
index 38ea0f60ef..f87038df89 100644
--- a/examples/dockmanager/package/easydocksite.pas
+++ b/examples/dockmanager/package/easydocksite.pas
@@ -300,9 +300,10 @@ type
     procedure IdToRec(const ID: string);
     function  RecToId: string;
   public //become class functions?
+    TryCreateControls: boolean;
     function  MakeDockable(AForm: TWinControl; fWrap: boolean = True; fVisible: boolean = False): TForm; virtual;
-    function SaveControl(Control: TControl; Site: TWinControl): string; virtual;
-    function ReloadControl(const AName: string; Site: TWinControl): TControl; virtual;
+    function  SaveControl(Control: TControl; Site: TWinControl): string; virtual;
+    function  ReloadControl(const AName: string; Site: TWinControl): TControl; virtual;
     property OnSave: TOnSaveControl read FOnSave write FOnSave;
     property OnRestore: TOnReloadControl read FOnRestore write FOnRestore;
     property ControlDescriptor: RControlDescriptor read rc;
@@ -2087,6 +2088,7 @@ var
   dst: TDockSiteClass absolute ct;
 begin
 (* Restore from typename, then restore clients.
+  Called when AName[1]=CustomDockSiteID.
 *)
   Result := nil;
   ss := TStringStream.Create(AName);
@@ -2115,6 +2117,10 @@ var
   ss: TStringStream;
 begin
 (* Save typename and clients.
+  Write to string:
+  - CustomDockSiteID
+  - ClassName
+  - content (SaveToStream)
 *)
   ss := TStringStream.Create('');
   try
@@ -2135,6 +2141,15 @@ var
 begin
 (* Save all docked controls.
   Flag nested custom dock sites - how?
+*)
+  if assigned(DockManager) then begin
+    DockManager.SaveToStream(strm);
+    exit;
+  end;
+{$IFDEF new}
+(* requires:
+- flag unmanaged
+- ctl.BoundsRect (within site!) -> translate for ManualDock
 *)
   n := DockClientCount;
   strm.WriteByte(n);
@@ -2143,6 +2158,9 @@ begin
     s := DockLoader.SaveControl(ctl, self);
     strm.WriteAnsiString(s);
   end;
+{$ELSE}
+  //unmanaged docksites unhandled
+{$ENDIF}
 end;
 
 procedure TCustomDockSite.LoadFromStream(strm: TStream);
@@ -2151,6 +2169,12 @@ var
   ctl: TControl;
   cn: string;
 begin
+  if assigned(DockManager) then begin
+    DockManager.LoadFromStream(strm);
+    exit;
+  end
+{$IFDEF new}
+//see SaveToStream!
   n := strm.ReadByte;
   for i := 1 to n do begin
     cn := strm.ReadAnsiString;
@@ -2159,6 +2183,9 @@ begin
       ctl.ManualDock(self); //orientation???
     //make visible?
   end;
+{$ELSE}
+  //unmanaged docksites unhandled
+{$ENDIF}
 end;
 
 { TCustomDockMaster }
@@ -2229,9 +2256,7 @@ var
 begin
 (* Result is the floating site, if created (fWrap).
   fWrap here is ignored.
-To be overridden by final TDockMaster, for
-- wrapping
-- visibility
+To be overridden by final TDockMaster, for wrapping.
 *)
 //make it dockable
   wctl.DragKind := dkDock;
@@ -2248,12 +2273,12 @@ var
   fo: TComponent; //form owner
   cmp: TComponent absolute Result;
 begin
-(* Reload from
-- saved site info (if CustomDockSite)
+(* Reload from:
+- CustomDockSite (allow for nested layouts)
 - AppLoadStore
 - OnRestore
-- Owner
-- create from descriptor
+- our Owner
+- create from descriptor (optionally)
 - DockSite
 *)
   Result := nil;
@@ -2275,18 +2300,20 @@ begin
   if Result is TControl then
     exit;
   Result := nil; //exclude non-controls
-//load from descriptor
-  fc := TWinControlClass(GetClass(rc.ClassName));
-  if not assigned(fc) then begin
-    DebugLn(rc.ClassName, ' is not a registered class');
-    //exit(nil); //bad form name
-  end else begin
-  //init from descriptor
-    Result := fc.Create(fo);
-    if Result.Name <> rc.Name then
-      TryRename(Result, rc.Name);
-    if Result.Caption <> rc.Caption then
-      Result.Caption := rc.Caption; //really?
+//create from descriptor?
+  if TryCreateControls then begin
+    fc := TWinControlClass(GetClass(rc.ClassName));
+    if not assigned(fc) then begin
+      DebugLn(rc.ClassName, ' is not a registered class');
+      //exit(nil); //bad form name
+    end else begin
+    //init from descriptor
+      Result := fc.Create(fo);
+      if Result.Name <> rc.Name then
+        TryRename(Result, rc.Name);
+      if Result.Caption <> rc.Caption then
+        Result.Caption := rc.Caption; //really?
+    end;
   end;
 //last resort
   if Result = nil then
diff --git a/examples/dockmanager/package/umakesite.pas b/examples/dockmanager/package/umakesite.pas
index 73280f8de9..bb2c23e3ae 100644
--- a/examples/dockmanager/package/umakesite.pas
+++ b/examples/dockmanager/package/umakesite.pas
@@ -277,7 +277,7 @@ var
   s: string;
   ctl: TControl;
 begin
-(* Reload docked forms
+(* Reload any docked forms, from Screen's collection
 *)
 //search existing forms
   Result := nil;
@@ -292,7 +292,7 @@ begin
   end;
 //not found
   Result := inherited ReloadControl(AName, Site);
-  if Result = nil then
+  if (Result = nil) and TryCreateControls then
     Result := ReloadForm(AName, False, True);
 end;
 
@@ -424,27 +424,11 @@ Notebooks?
   Ownership?
     When notebooks are dockable, they cannot be owned by the DockSite!
 *)
-  Stream.Position := 0; //rewind!
+//Allow for non-dockable forms information in front of this part!
+  //Stream.Position := 0; //rewind! - must be done by the caller
+{ TODO : add non-dockable forms, for full application layout }
 //restore all top level sites
   while ReadSite do begin
-  {$IFDEF old}
-    if SiteRec.NameLen = 0 then begin
-    //floating site
-      site := TFloatingSite.Create(self);
-      site.BoundsRect := SiteRec.Bounds;
-    end else begin
-    //hosted panel - find parent form
-      site := MakePanel(SiteName, SiteRec.Align);
-    end;
-  //debug
-    if site = nil then begin
-      exit; //stream error!
-    end;
-  //adjust host form
-    if site.DockManager = nil then
-      TAppDockManager.Create(site);
-    site.DockManager.LoadFromStream(Stream);
-  {$ELSE}
     case SiteRec.Kind of
     skEnd,      //end marker
     skNone:     //not to be saved/restored
@@ -471,17 +455,16 @@ Notebooks?
       ShowMessage('unhandled site kind: ' + SiteName);
       exit;
     end;
-    //debug
-      if site = nil then begin
-        ShowMessage('could not reload ' + SiteName);
-        exit; //stream error!
-      end;
-    //adjust host form
-      if site.DockManager = nil then
-        TAppDockManager.Create(site);
-      site.DockManager.LoadFromStream(Stream);
-      site.Show;
-  {$ENDIF}
+  //debug
+    if site = nil then begin
+      ShowMessage('could not reload ' + SiteName);
+      exit; //stream error!
+    end;
+  //adjust host form
+    if site.DockManager = nil then
+      TAppDockManager.Create(site);
+    site.DockManager.LoadFromStream(Stream);
+    site.Show;
   end;
 end;
 
@@ -497,29 +480,6 @@ procedure TDockMaster.SaveToStream(Stream: TStream);
       //destroy empty floating sites?
       exit;
     end;
-  {$IFDEF old}
-    if Site.DockManager = nil then
-      exit;
-    if Site is TDockPanel then begin
-      if site.Parent = nil then begin
-      //destroy orphaned panel?
-        site.Free;
-        exit;
-      end;
-      SiteRec.Bounds := Site.Parent.BoundsRect;
-      SiteRec.Extent := site.BoundsRect;
-      SiteRec.AutoExpand := (site as TDockPanel).AutoExpand;
-    end else {if Site.Parent = nil then} begin
-      SiteRec.Bounds := Site.BoundsRect
-    end;
-    SiteName := AName;
-    SiteRec.Align := Site.Align;
-    SiteRec.NameLen := Length(SiteName);
-    Stream.Write(SiteRec, sizeof(SiteRec));
-    if AName <> '' then
-      Stream.Write(SiteName[1], Length(SiteName));
-    Site.DockManager.SaveToStream(Stream);
-  {$ELSE}
     SiteRec.Kind := skNone;
   //handle elastic sites first!
     if Site is TDockPanel then begin
@@ -569,7 +529,6 @@ procedure TDockMaster.SaveToStream(Stream: TStream);
       ShowMessage('unhandled site ' + SiteName);
       //raise...
     end;
-  {$ENDIF}
   end;
 
 var
@@ -578,7 +537,7 @@ var
   wc: TWinControl absolute cmp;
 begin
 (* Save all floating sites and elastic panels.
-  The sites are in Components[].
+  The sites are in our Components[].
   The panels are in ElasticSites (if ownPanels is undefined).
 *)
 //save floating sites
@@ -589,13 +548,8 @@ begin
     end;
   end;
 //end marker
-{$IFDEF old}
-  SiteRec.Bounds.Right := -1;
-  SiteRec.NameLen := 0;
-{$ELSE}
   SiteRec.Kind := skEnd;
   //SiteName:='';
-{$ENDIF}
   Stream.Write(SiteRec, sizeof(SiteRec));
 end;